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Discussed at connections-20080112

  • Helmut Burkhardt respects Howard Odum's work, but has some issues because Odum isn't a physicist.
  • Helmut Burkhardt attended a workshop by Howard Odum at a workshop on The Prosperous Way Down.
  • Burkhardt says that solar energy is plentiful, but Odum said that it was too diffuse.
  • Odum also said that the energy was highly distributed, it doesn't have quality, e.g. oil is concentrated.
  • Correct: second law of thermodynamics. The quality of the energy depends on the source, e.g. oil is about 3000-4000, whereas solar energy is 6000.
  • Technical efficiency is 95%, oil is 65%, bioenergy is 1%; thus, would need to collect a lot more.
  • Helmut Burkhardt admires Howard Odum's creativity in ecosystems, but Odum is working on some wrong assumptions.
  • Problem is theoretical.
  • Engineer's concept: entropy law is backward, you get more of something negative, not something for nothing: exergy
  • Energy as the ability to do work, that is nonsense.
  • There's lots of heat energy in the ocean, but can't get to it.
  • Ocean energy as waves, kinetic is pure exergy.
  • Exergy is the part we pay for.
  • Odum created a concept of emergy; Burkhardt is not sure that this is helpful.
  • James Kay uses exergy, less controversial.
  • Odum's damage has been to get a public perception that solar energy is not viable.
  • Gain of solar technology is not bad today, with a life of 30 years, and a payback in two years.
  • Look at Energy Return on Energy Invested
helmut_burkhardt_association_howard_odum.txt · Last modified: 2020/07/27 15:38 (external edit)